George Orwell
2009-05-15 02:56:57 UTC
David Sternlight (***@netcom.com) wrote:
: However, readers who like the slippery slope argument may wish to know that
: I am rethinking my view of this principle, not because of the above, but
: because I continue to think about issues in sincere dispute.
..
: In a sense those who object to a resource ID card on grounds that it might
: become a national ID card are in this tradition. The issue then becomes one
: of where one puts the trip wires, rather than the appropriateness of trip
: wires.
: Gotta think about this some more.
This is an issue we're all thinking about, in its various
manifestations.
I see any social welfare state, such as ours, which gives out various
resources as having to verify that it isn't giving out the resources
to the same person multiple times, to "unqualified" people, etc.
Thus, I can see the need to have proof of identity. How else could it
be, given such handouts?
However, I have many reservations about the implementation and
enforcement of such system. I don't have the time or will right now to
recap the points I've made elsewhere, so I'll just list a few points:
* no identity system should ever be made _mandatory_ for general use.
Specifically, if I am not seeking government handouts of some sort,
failure to have ID should cause no problems, right? (And I am not
setting up a straw man, claiming that the proposed card is to be
required. That is indeed my real concern, but I don't base my concerns
on such a straw man.)
* a cleaner and better way to resolve these nettlesome issues of
immigration, health care, welfare, handouts, etc., is to simply cut
them all off. I don't care who has "proof" of their identities and who
doesn't if I only have to interact with in mutually agreeable
transactions. Ditto for proofs of citizenship, etc.
* a concern I have is that a government-issued smartcard-type ID could
be used by DMV, credit card companies, etc. as a piggybacking vehicle.
This could--emphasis on could--result in such a card being a de facto
mandatory card. (Even worse would be a de jure mandatory card, of
course. But I agree with many that Americans would not cotten to that.)
* make use of Chaum-style credentials allowing selective disclosures
of specific fields of data, not full ID information. (Lots of
technical details here, which I won't go into.)
Me, I often don't carry any ID on me. I've never been stopped and told
to produce ID. If I were, I'd ask for what law requires this. If
hauled in for vagrancy, I'd sue the city and cops. And I think I'd
win.
Cops know this, too, and are fairly careful not to randomly hassle
folks and demand they produce their "papers."
--Tim May
--
.........................................................................
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
https://www.mixmaster.it
: However, readers who like the slippery slope argument may wish to know that
: I am rethinking my view of this principle, not because of the above, but
: because I continue to think about issues in sincere dispute.
..
: In a sense those who object to a resource ID card on grounds that it might
: become a national ID card are in this tradition. The issue then becomes one
: of where one puts the trip wires, rather than the appropriateness of trip
: wires.
: Gotta think about this some more.
This is an issue we're all thinking about, in its various
manifestations.
I see any social welfare state, such as ours, which gives out various
resources as having to verify that it isn't giving out the resources
to the same person multiple times, to "unqualified" people, etc.
Thus, I can see the need to have proof of identity. How else could it
be, given such handouts?
However, I have many reservations about the implementation and
enforcement of such system. I don't have the time or will right now to
recap the points I've made elsewhere, so I'll just list a few points:
* no identity system should ever be made _mandatory_ for general use.
Specifically, if I am not seeking government handouts of some sort,
failure to have ID should cause no problems, right? (And I am not
setting up a straw man, claiming that the proposed card is to be
required. That is indeed my real concern, but I don't base my concerns
on such a straw man.)
* a cleaner and better way to resolve these nettlesome issues of
immigration, health care, welfare, handouts, etc., is to simply cut
them all off. I don't care who has "proof" of their identities and who
doesn't if I only have to interact with in mutually agreeable
transactions. Ditto for proofs of citizenship, etc.
* a concern I have is that a government-issued smartcard-type ID could
be used by DMV, credit card companies, etc. as a piggybacking vehicle.
This could--emphasis on could--result in such a card being a de facto
mandatory card. (Even worse would be a de jure mandatory card, of
course. But I agree with many that Americans would not cotten to that.)
* make use of Chaum-style credentials allowing selective disclosures
of specific fields of data, not full ID information. (Lots of
technical details here, which I won't go into.)
Me, I often don't carry any ID on me. I've never been stopped and told
to produce ID. If I were, I'd ask for what law requires this. If
hauled in for vagrancy, I'd sue the city and cops. And I think I'd
win.
Cops know this, too, and are fairly careful not to randomly hassle
folks and demand they produce their "papers."
--Tim May
--
.........................................................................
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
https://www.mixmaster.it