Discussion:
Newbie question
(too old to reply)
species8350
2008-09-02 01:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Can someone answee the following question

If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?

Thanks
Neil W Rickert
2008-09-02 02:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by species8350
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
If you encrypt with the private key, then anybody can decrypt.
That's why we don't do things that way.

Encrypt with the public key of the recipient. If the recipient
does not have a public key, tell him/her to get one first before
you send the message.
Arthur T.
2008-09-02 02:34:16 UTC
Permalink
In
Post by species8350
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Yes. That's why you're supposed to encrypt the message to
the recipient's public key.

One of the favorite tricks of newbies is to encrypt to their
own public key and then wonder why the recipient can't read it.
--
Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" intergate "dot" com
Looking for a z/OS (IBM mainframe) systems programmer position
David E. Ross
2008-09-02 04:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by species8350
Hi,
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
You encrypt the message BOTH to your own PUBLIC key (so that you can
read it again at a later time) and to the recipient's PUBLIC key. Then,
no one can read the message unless they have both one of the private
keys and its passphrase. You should be the only person having your
private key and knowing your passphrase. The recipient should be the
only person having his or her private key and knowing the related
passphrase.

For a longer but still simple explanation, see my
<http://www.rossde.com/PGP/pgp_encrypt.html#basic>.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Q: What's a President Bush cocktail?
A: Business on the rocks.
species8350
2008-09-02 10:26:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by species8350
Hi,
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
You encrypt the message BOTH to your own PUBLIC key (so that you can
read it again at a later time) and to the recipient's PUBLIC key.  Then,
no one can read the message unless they have both one of the private
keys and its passphrase.  You should be the only person having your
private key and knowing your passphrase.  The recipient should be the
only person having his or her private key and knowing the related
passphrase.
For a longer but still simple explanation, see my
<http://www.rossde.com/PGP/pgp_encrypt.html#basic>.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>
Q:  What's a President Bush cocktail?
A:  Business on the rocks.
If I encrypt using the recipients public key. Am I right in assuming
that if the message was intercepted then the recipients public key
would not decrypt the message - only the recipients private key will
do this?

Am I right in assuming that private keys are only used for decryption?

Thanks
David E. Ross
2008-09-02 16:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by species8350
Post by species8350
Hi,
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
You encrypt the message BOTH to your own PUBLIC key (so that you can
read it again at a later time) and to the recipient's PUBLIC key. Then,
no one can read the message unless they have both one of the private
keys and its passphrase. You should be the only person having your
private key and knowing your passphrase. The recipient should be the
only person having his or her private key and knowing the related
passphrase.
For a longer but still simple explanation, see my
<http://www.rossde.com/PGP/pgp_encrypt.html#basic>.
If I encrypt using the recipients public key. Am I right in assuming
that if the message was intercepted then the recipients public key
would not decrypt the message - only the recipients private key will
do this?
That is correct.
Post by species8350
Am I right in assuming that private keys are only used for decryption?
Private keys are also used to sign messages and files. The related
public keys are then used to verify the signatures.

Only you have your private key and its associated passphrase. Thus,
only you can generate a signature using that key. Anyone can have your
public key; that's why it's PUBLIC. Thus, anyone can verify (but not
generate) your signature.

However, when it comes to decryption, only private keys are involved.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Q: What's a President Bush cocktail?
A: Business on the rocks.
Casey
2008-09-02 18:40:13 UTC
Permalink
In article <e74d901c-eb2c-477e-a474-
Post by species8350
Hi,
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
Hi, this is an over simplification of how Public Key Encryption
Works. It should help a newbie.

After you install the encryption software and do preliminary setup,
About the next thing you do is CREATE YOUR OWN 'KEY'. This so-called
'Key' is actually 2 keys. They are companion keys.

The software designates one of the keys as the encryt key and designates
the other key as the decrypt key.

The encrypt key, called Public Key, encrypts emails/files.
The decrypt key (plus your pass phrase), called Secret Key,
is the only key in the world that can decrypt those emails/files.

If you want to send someone an encrypted email, you must get the
recipient's Public Key and encrypt with it. Only the recipient
has his own companion decripting Secret Key and his pass phrase.

If someone wants to send you an encrypted email, that person must
first get your Public Key and encrypt with it. Only you with your
decrypting Secret Key and your pass phrase can decrypt it.

Good luck with it,
Casey
species8350
2008-09-04 10:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
In article <e74d901c-eb2c-477e-a474-
Post by species8350
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
Hi, this is an over simplification of how Public Key Encryption
Works. It should help a newbie.
After you install the encryption software and do preliminary setup,
About the next thing you do is CREATE YOUR OWN 'KEY'.  This so-called
'Key' is actually 2 keys. They are companion keys.
The software designates one of the keys as the encryt key and designates
the other key as the decrypt key.
The encrypt key, called Public Key, encrypts emails/files.
The decrypt key (plus your pass phrase), called Secret Key,
is the only key in the world that can decrypt those emails/files.
If you want to send someone an encrypted email, you must get the
recipient's Public Key and encrypt with it.  Only the recipient
has his own companion decripting Secret Key and his pass phrase.
If someone wants to send you an encrypted email, that person must
first get your Public Key and encrypt with it.  Only you with your
decrypting Secret Key and your pass phrase can decrypt it.
Good luck with it,
Casey
Thanks to you both for the responses.

Please can you tell me the role of the 'pass phrase'

Thanks
Neil - Salem, MA USA
2008-09-04 13:28:00 UTC
Permalink
[...snip...]
Please can you tell me the role of the 'pass phrase'
Thanks
The word 'passphrase' is used in two contexts in PGP:

1) A passphrase is used to encrypt a private key and thus 'lock' the private
key.
2) A passphrase will be used when performing 'conventional encryption'
(encryption that uses symmetric encryption methods only).

To expand on this, in 1):

It is optional to give a private key a passphrase. When a private key has
one, you will be prompted for the passphrase before you can use your private
key. (Remember that you use your private key to decrypt messages or files
that were encrypted using your public key. You also use your private key
when signing a message or file.)

A passphrase is a relatively weak locking mechanism when compared to the
strength of strong (1024 bit) asymmetric encryption keys (e.g. RSA) or the
strong (128 bit) symmetric keys (e.g. AES). Nevertheless, assigning a
passphrase to your private key increases your security by giving you some
limited protection against someone gaining access to your private key.

To expand on 2):

When you use PGP's 'conventional encryption', you are using symmetric
encryption methods only to encrypt a message or file. Neither your PGP
public key nor your PGP private key are involved in this process. It is
called symmetric encryption because the key that is used to encrypt the
message or file is the same one used to decrypt it. This 'shared secret'
symmetric key is derived from a passphrase that you make up. If you encrypt
a message using 'conventional encryption' and then you email the encrypted
message to a recipient, your recipient will need to know the passphrase you
chose in order to decrypt the message. You will have to send him the
passphrase via some alternate secure channel. (Perhaps you can call him on
the phone and tell him the passphrase.)

Note:

A short passphrase is undesireable since it has poor security. Make your
passphrase from multiple words and consider using special characters like
'&', '%', or '#", or a mixture of uppercase, lowercase, and numbers. The
longer your passphrase, the more it begins to have a strength comparable to
1024 bit asymmetric keys or 128 bit symmetric keys. - On the other hand,
don't make a passphrase so long and complicated that you forget it.

Don't record and store your passphrase with your private key. If someone
gets his hands on your passphrase plus your private key, your security has
been completely compromised.

Having no passphrase whatsoever on a private key is considered by most
people to be unacceptable unless you can guarantee that your computer will
never be accessed by an attacker. (Consider how many notorious
lost-notebook-stories your read about in the news! Don't forget too about
spyware attacks.)

If you forget your private key's passphrase, you have effectively lost your
private key.
1PW
2008-09-04 15:55:40 UTC
Permalink
On 09/04/2008 03:43 AM, species8350 sent:

Snip, snip...
Post by species8350
Please can you tell me the role of the 'pass phrase'
Thanks
The pass phrase is the portal to the secret ring.

The pass phrase is a further extension of passwords while improving
entropy.

Pass phrases ideally are much longer and thereby protect the contents of
the PGP/GPG secret ring that much better. i.e. a pass phrase could be
over 100 characters long. If clever alterations to words and content
are used in a good/long pass phrase, it would make a brute
force/dictionary attacks closer to impossible, if not uneconomical.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_phrase>

<http://www.pgpi.org/doc/faq/passphrase/>

I do hope Neil Rickert and/or David Ross weigh in on this subject as
their collective knowledge is formidable.

Best wishes to you.
--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9:DE=6o2@=]4@> [r4o7t]
David E. Ross
2008-09-04 16:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1PW
I do hope Neil Rickert and/or David Ross weigh in on this subject as
their collective knowledge is formidable.
Neil answered quite well. (And I'm quite flattered.)
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Q: What's a President Bush cocktail?
A: Business on the rocks.
Unruh
2008-09-04 18:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by species8350
Post by Casey
In article <e74d901c-eb2c-477e-a474-
Post by species8350
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
Hi, this is an over simplification of how Public Key Encryption
Works. It should help a newbie.
After you install the encryption software and do preliminary setup,
About the next thing you do is CREATE YOUR OWN 'KEY'. =A0This so-called
'Key' is actually 2 keys. They are companion keys.
The software designates one of the keys as the encryt key and designates
the other key as the decrypt key.
The encrypt key, called Public Key, encrypts emails/files.
The decrypt key (plus your pass phrase), called Secret Key,
is the only key in the world that can decrypt those emails/files.
If you want to send someone an encrypted email, you must get the
recipient's Public Key and encrypt with it. =A0Only the recipient
has his own companion decripting Secret Key and his pass phrase.
If someone wants to send you an encrypted email, that person must
first get your Public Key and encrypt with it. =A0Only you with your
decrypting Secret Key and your pass phrase can decrypt it.
Good luck with it,
Casey
Thanks to you both for the responses.
Please can you tell me the role of the 'pass phrase'
Your private key is critical for decryption and if anyone gets ahold of it
( eg via a breakin on your computer) they can read all you r mail. The
passphrase is used as a key to protect your private key using regular
ecryption. Then if someone breaks in they have to not only steal your
private key file but also get your passphrase to decrypt that private key
file. Mind you if they have broken into your machine, they can put in a
keyboard logger and snaffle your key, but it is an extra protection.
Post by species8350
Thanks
Casey
2008-09-04 23:56:54 UTC
Permalink
In article <7519f4fb-59cf-4976-9be1-
Post by species8350
Post by Casey
In article <e74d901c-eb2c-477e-a474-
Post by species8350
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
Hi, this is an over simplification of how Public Key Encryption
Works. It should help a newbie.
After you install the encryption software and do preliminary setup,
About the next thing you do is CREATE YOUR OWN 'KEY'.  This so-called
'Key' is actually 2 keys. They are companion keys.
The software designates one of the keys as the encryt key and designates
the other key as the decrypt key.
The encrypt key, called Public Key, encrypts emails/files.
The decrypt key (plus your pass phrase), called Secret Key,
is the only key in the world that can decrypt those emails/files.
If you want to send someone an encrypted email, you must get the
recipient's Public Key and encrypt with it.  Only the recipient
has his own companion decripting Secret Key and his pass phrase.
If someone wants to send you an encrypted email, that person must
first get your Public Key and encrypt with it.  Only you with your
decrypting Secret Key and your pass phrase can decrypt it.
Good luck with it,
Casey
Thanks to you both for the responses.
Please can you tell me the role of the 'pass phrase'
Thanks
Simply put: These computers can be full of Pass Words.
For example, when you install an Email Client you probably will be
given an option to use a Pass Word. If you make up the Pass Word
and use it, only you will then have access to that Email Client.
Pass Words are sometimes quite short.

In PGP a Pass Phrase can be thought of as a 'Pass Word" that controls
access to the Secret Key so that only you can use the Secret Key.
For security reasons, PassPhrases are made long and frequently
complicated. They can be made up of alphabet (upper or lower case),
numbers, and characters on your keyboard.
(If too long, they are easy to forget :-( )
Casey
species8350
2008-09-05 09:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Casey
In article <7519f4fb-59cf-4976-9be1-
Post by species8350
Post by Casey
In article <e74d901c-eb2c-477e-a474-
Post by species8350
Can someone answee the following question
If I encrypt a message with my private key and send the message to
another person, could an evesdropper not decode the message simply by
applying my public key?
Thanks
Hi, this is an over simplification of how Public Key Encryption
Works. It should help a newbie.
After you install the encryption software and do preliminary setup,
About the next thing you do is CREATE YOUR OWN 'KEY'.  This so-called
'Key' is actually 2 keys. They are companion keys.
The software designates one of the keys as the encryt key and designates
the other key as the decrypt key.
The encrypt key, called Public Key, encrypts emails/files.
The decrypt key (plus your pass phrase), called Secret Key,
is the only key in the world that can decrypt those emails/files.
If you want to send someone an encrypted email, you must get the
recipient's Public Key and encrypt with it.  Only the recipient
has his own companion decripting Secret Key and his pass phrase.
If someone wants to send you an encrypted email, that person must
first get your Public Key and encrypt with it.  Only you with your
decrypting Secret Key and your pass phrase can decrypt it.
Good luck with it,
Casey
Thanks to you both for the responses.
Please can you tell me the role of the 'pass phrase'
Thanks
Simply put:  These computers can be full of Pass Words.
For example, when you install an Email Client you probably will be
given an option to use a Pass Word.  If you make up the Pass Word
and use it, only you will then have access to that Email Client.
Pass Words are sometimes quite short.
In PGP a Pass Phrase can be thought of as a 'Pass Word" that controls
access to the Secret Key so that only you can use the Secret Key.
For security reasons, PassPhrases are made long and frequently
complicated.  They can be made up of alphabet (upper or lower case),
numbers, and characters on your keyboard.
(If too long, they are easy to forget :-( )
Casey- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks to all for the very good and clear answers.

Special thanks to Neil for a very detailed and very clear answer

Best wishes.

Loading...