Delete UID's from keyserver?

[starwars]

I have some keys on keyservers and the UID's are no good because the email
addy's are no good anymore. Is there a way to delete these bad UID's?

[James P. Howard, II]

Post by starwars
I have some keys on keyservers and the UID's are no good because the email
addy's are no good anymore. Is there a way to delete these bad UID's?

UIDs may not be deleted from a PGP key. However, you may revoke the
entire key or simply revoke the invalid UID and republish the key.

James

- --
James P. Howard, II, MPA MBCS CGFM
***@jameshoward.us

[JTF]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Post by starwars
I have some keys on keyservers and the UID's are no good because the email
addy's are no good anymore. Is there a way to delete these bad UID's?

UIDs may not be deleted from a PGP key.  However, you may revoke the
entire key or simply revoke the invalid UID and republish the key.
James
- --
James P. Howard, II, MPA MBCS CGFM
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Unless a revocation key was created with the UID, pgp/gpg keys can not
be removed from the servers. If you have the revocation key, just
upload it to the key server and the key will be revoked.

[Nomen Nescio]

Post by James P. Howard, II
UIDs may not be deleted from a PGP key. However, you may revoke the
entire key or simply revoke the invalid UID and republish the key.
James

Thanks. That sucks. The keyservers should delete UID's when you reupload
your key without specific UID's.

[James P. Howard, II]

Post by Nomen Nescio
Thanks. That sucks. The keyservers should delete UID's when you reupload
your key without specific UID's.

Well, no. Anyone can upload your key. If someone uploaded your key
without a UID (either out of date or maliciously), it would disappear
from the keyserver.

UID revocation is provided to solve this problem. With it, a UID is
considered invalid, but it is still carried with the rest of the key.

James

- --
James P. Howard, II, MPA MBCS CGFM
***@jameshoward.us

[Non scrivetemi]

Post by James P. Howard, II

Post by Nomen Nescio
Thanks. That sucks. The keyservers should delete UID's when you reupload
your key without specific UID's.

Well, no. Anyone can upload your key. If someone uploaded your key
without a UID (either out of date or maliciously), it would disappear
from the keyserver.
UID revocation is provided to solve this problem. With it, a UID is
considered invalid, but it is still carried with the rest of the key.

Thanks guys. That doesn't solve this problem, it just creates a different
type of problem. The problem is bad UID's should not remain on the
keyserver. That could have been solved by requiring the key to be
self-signed when uploaded.

[James P. Howard, II]

Post by Non scrivetemi
Thanks guys. That doesn't solve this problem, it just creates a different
type of problem. The problem is bad UID's should not remain on the
keyserver. That could have been solved by requiring the key to be
self-signed when uploaded.

Not really. All UIDs are self-signed as are all subkeys. When a UID
(or subkey) is revoked, what really happens is that the self-signature
is revoked. "Bad UIDs" have to remain on the server to notify users
that the UID is no longer available.

James

- --
James P. Howard, II, MPA MBCS CGFM
***@jameshoward.us

[Nomen Nescio]

Post by James P. Howard, II

Post by Non scrivetemi
Thanks guys. That doesn't solve this problem, it just creates a
different type of problem. The problem is bad UID's should not remain
on the keyserver. That could have been solved by requiring the key to be
self-signed when uploaded.

Not really. All UIDs are self-signed as are all subkeys. When a UID
(or subkey) is revoked, what really happens is that the self-signature
is revoked. "Bad UIDs" have to remain on the server to notify users
that the UID is no longer available.

Why wouldn't deleting a UID notify users that its no longer available?

[David W. Hodgins]

Post by Nomen Nescio
Why wouldn't deleting a UID notify users that its no longer available?

I could take your key, and use a hex editor to delete one
of the user ids, and then upload that to the key servers.

In order to ensure that doesn't happen, the key servers and
gpg/pgp import of keys will ignore the fact the the imported
key is missing a uid, that is already in the keyring.

While you can delete a userid from a key, you can't get the
key servers, or others importing the key, to remove the userid
from the copy of the key already stored in the keyring.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

[Non scrivetemi]

Post by David W. Hodgins

Post by Nomen Nescio
Why wouldn't deleting a UID notify users that its no longer available?

I could take your key, and use a hex editor to delete one
of the user ids, and then upload that to the key servers.

I suggested the key should have been self signed. If the entire key
including UID's was self signed then nobody could alter any part of the
key including UID's. This is how X.509 certs work.

I understand you can't delete UID's the way things are designed now. I am
just saying it didn't have to be that way, somebody didn't think this
through.

Post by David W. Hodgins
While you can delete a userid from a key, you can't get the
key servers, or others importing the key, to remove the userid
from the copy of the key already stored in the keyring.

If this would of been designed right there would of been no problem to
delete UID's. Then when the person uploads your key the bad UID's would be
gone and he couldn't email you and you wouldn't have bad UID's lying
around on the internet with all your old email addys.

[James P. Howard, II]

Post by Non scrivetemi
I suggested the key should have been self signed. If the entire key
including UID's was self signed then nobody could alter any part of
the key including UID's. This is how X.509 certs work.
I understand you can't delete UID's the way things are designed now.
I am just saying it didn't have to be that way, somebody didn't think
this through.

Yes they did. Imagine the following scenario.

1) I have a key (0xDEADBEEF) with my one email address,
***@jameshoward.us on it, sign the entire key, and submit it to a keyserver.

2) You download it.

3) I have a key (0xDEADBEEF) with my one email address,
***@gmail.com on it, sign the entire key, and submit it to a keyserver.

4) Under your scenario, if DEADBEEF/howardjp were submitted after
DEADBEEF/jh, jh is deleted.

5) You upload DEADBEEF/jh.

6) The keyserver dutifully deletes DEADBEEF/howardjp, and restores
DEADBEEF/jh. That is not what I wanted and there is no way to stop it.

James

- --
James P. Howard, II, MPA MBCS CGFM
***@jameshoward.us

[Fritz Wuehler]

Post by James P. Howard, II
Yes they did. Imagine the following scenario.
1) I have a key (0xDEADBEEF) with my one email address,
2) You download it.
3) I have a key (0xDEADBEEF) with my one email address,

If two keys have the same fingerprint or ID this is already a problem,
isn't it?

Post by James P. Howard, II
4) Under your scenario, if DEADBEEF/howardjp were submitted after
DEADBEEF/jh, jh is deleted.

Not necessarily, add a UID instead of submitting a whole new key.

Post by James P. Howard, II
5) You upload DEADBEEF/jh.

How can anybody generate a key matching an existing key id? I know it can
happen very infrequently but it should not happen with keys of the same
size.

Post by James P. Howard, II
6) The keyserver dutifully deletes DEADBEEF/howardjp, and restores
DEADBEEF/jh. That is not what I wanted and there is no way to stop it.

There is a difference between requiring all UID changes and deletions to be
self-signed by the owning key and your scenario where two keys have the
same id. The latter is not supposed to happen.

[James P. Howard, II]

Post by Fritz Wuehler

Post by James P. Howard, II
Yes they did. Imagine the following scenario.
1) I have a key (0xDEADBEEF) with my one email address,
2) You download it.
3) I have a key (0xDEADBEEF) with my one email address,

If two keys have the same fingerprint or ID this is already a problem,
isn't it?

I presume these are the same key with different UIDs on it.

Post by Fritz Wuehler

Post by James P. Howard, II
4) Under your scenario, if DEADBEEF/howardjp were submitted after
DEADBEEF/jh, jh is deleted.

Not necessarily, add a UID instead of submitting a whole new key.

Necessarily under non scrivetemi's plan.

Post by Fritz Wuehler

Post by James P. Howard, II
5) You upload DEADBEEF/jh.

How can anybody generate a key matching an existing key id? I know it can
happen very infrequently but it should not happen with keys of the same
size.

No, you upload my key with the wrong UID on it.

Post by Fritz Wuehler

Post by James P. Howard, II
6) The keyserver dutifully deletes DEADBEEF/howardjp, and restores
DEADBEEF/jh. That is not what I wanted and there is no way to stop it.

There is a difference between requiring all UID changes and deletions to be
self-signed by the owning key and your scenario where two keys have the
same id. The latter is not supposed to happen.

You didn't follow. In this case, DEADBEEF/jh and DEADBEEF/howardjp are
both my key with different UIDs on it.

- --
James P. Howard, II, MPA MBCS CGFM
***@jameshoward.us

[starwars]

Post by James P. Howard, II

Post by Fritz Wuehler
If two keys have the same fingerprint or ID this is already a problem,
isn't it?

I presume these are the same key with different UIDs on it.

Then they should be merged. Not a problem.

Post by James P. Howard, II

Post by Fritz Wuehler
How can anybody generate a key matching an existing key id? I know it
can happen very infrequently but it should not happen with keys of the
same size.

No, you upload my key with the wrong UID on it.

That can't happen because the entire key has to be self-signed. Nobody but
the key owner can modify the key or upload it if it was required to be
self-signed like a X.509 certificate.

Post by James P. Howard, II

Post by Fritz Wuehler
There is a difference between requiring all UID changes and deletions
to be self-signed by the owning key and your scenario where two keys
have the same id. The latter is not supposed to happen.

You didn't follow. In this case, DEADBEEF/jh and DEADBEEF/howardjp are
both my key with different UIDs on it.

Then you will have to upload your key the way you want when you get your
UID's straightened out ;)

[James P. Howard, II]

Post by starwars
That can't happen because the entire key has to be self-signed. Nobody but
the key owner can modify the key or upload it if it was required to be
self-signed like a X.509 certificate.

Can still happen even if the entire key is self-signed. First of all,
nobody but the key owner has modified the key in the scenario I laid
out. Second, the server has no mechanism for determining who is uploading.

Just to prove all of this, I have uploaded[1], two copies of my primary
key, each with a different UID, and each with the entire key self-signed.

Now which one is the real key?

Post by starwars
Then you will have to upload your key the way you want when you get your
UID's straightened out ;)

Then you might clobber it again.

James

1. ftp://ftp.jameshoward.us/pub/howardjp/demos/interesting-keys

- --
James P. Howard, II, MPA MBCS CGFM
***@jameshoward.us

[David W. Hodgins]

Post by Nomen Nescio
Thanks. That sucks. The keyservers should delete UID's when you reupload
your key without specific UID's.

Problem with that would be if someone uploaded an old version of
your key.

Regards, Dave Hodgins