PGPdisk - can't unmount

Post by Linea Recta
Since some time I can't unmount my PGPdisk anymore. (I think since updating
McAfee antivirus).
When I choose 'unmount all disks' in the PGP tray menu, nothing happens, I
get no messages. For checking purpose I always choose the same option a
second time to make sure (good for me!), but now all PGP tray options appear
greyed out and the volume remains mounted! Only thing I can do is reboot.
Anything I can do about it? Otherwise I'll have to uninstall PGP and replace
with TrueCrypt...
PGP 8.1
Windows 2000SP4

I've had issues in the past with not being able to unmount a PGP virtual
disk. In the end "solved" my problem by enabling a setting that said, in
essense, "allow unmounting of virtual disks even with open files." Even
though I was sure that I had no open files that might interfere with my
unmounting the virtual disk, I suspect that Windows had cached some file, or
some information about some file, or perhaps information about the virtual
disk itself, and thus was behaving as if a file was still open.

Neil - Salem, MA USA

Linea Recta

2008-12-04 14:58:44 UTC

Thanks for your reply.
I have this problem only recently and I'm using PGP 8.1 for a long time.
It always worked fine. In case of errorously having files left open, I'm
used to getting a PGP message stating so. Now, I'm sure not having any files
left open.

I don't like this at all and for this I'm about to remove PGP altogether...

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Neil - Salem, MA USA

2008-12-04 19:03:33 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
Since some time I can't unmount my PGPdisk anymore. (I think since updating
McAfee antivirus).
When I choose 'unmount all disks' in the PGP tray menu, nothing
happens,

Post by Linea Recta
get no messages. For checking purpose I always choose the same option a
second time to make sure (good for me!), but now all PGP tray options appear
greyed out and the volume remains mounted! Only thing I can do is

reboot.

Post by Linea Recta
Anything I can do about it? Otherwise I'll have to uninstall PGP and replace
with TrueCrypt...
PGP 8.1
Windows 2000SP4

Post by Neil - Salem, MA USA
some information about some file, or perhaps information about the virtual
disk itself, and thus was behaving as if a file was still open.

Thanks for your reply.
I have this problem only recently and I'm using PGP 8.1 for a long time.
It always worked fine. In case of errorously having files left open, I'm
used to getting a PGP message stating so. Now, I'm sure not having any files
left open.
I don't like this at all and for this I'm about to remove PGP
altogether...

Clearly, for you to suddenly have this problem present itself when it never
had before, something has changed. However, since PGP 8.1 has not changed,
I would guess that what has changed is Windows (as it always does everytime
we do a Windows Update) or perhaps McAfee (you mentioned that you recently
updated it).

You say that you are "sure not having any files left open." I too was sure
that I did not have any files open, yet I still had the issue. As a matter
of fact, to recreate the problem in which I could not unmount a virtual
disk, all I had to do was the following: 1) mount the disk, 2) unmount the
disk, 3) mount the disk, and then 4) TRY to unmount the disk, which would
fail due to "open files". At no point did I even look at the files on the
disk yet I got this error. My solution, as I said, was to simply specify
that it was acceptable to unmount a PGP virtual disk even with open files.

I suspect, though I can't prove it, that some behavior in Windows was at the
root of my problem.

Neil - Salem, MA USA

Linea Recta

2008-12-04 19:42:37 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
Since some time I can't unmount my PGPdisk anymore. (I think since updating
McAfee antivirus).
When I choose 'unmount all disks' in the PGP tray menu, nothing
happens,

reboot.

Post by Linea Recta
Anything I can do about it? Otherwise I'll have to uninstall PGP and replace
with TrueCrypt...
PGP 8.1
Windows 2000SP4

Post by Neil - Salem, MA USA
some information about some file, or perhaps information about the virtual
disk itself, and thus was behaving as if a file was still open.

Thanks for your reply.
I have this problem only recently and I'm using PGP 8.1 for a long time.
It always worked fine. In case of errorously having files left open, I'm
used to getting a PGP message stating so. Now, I'm sure not having any files
left open.
I don't like this at all and for this I'm about to remove PGP
altogether...

Clearly, for you to suddenly have this problem present itself when it
never had before, something has changed. However, since PGP 8.1 has not
changed, I would guess that what has changed is Windows (as it always does
everytime we do a Windows Update) or perhaps McAfee (you mentioned that
you recently updated it).
You say that you are "sure not having any files left open." I too was
sure that I did not have any files open, yet I still had the issue. As a
matter of fact, to recreate the problem in which I could not unmount a
virtual disk, all I had to do was the following: 1) mount the disk, 2)
unmount the disk, 3) mount the disk, and then 4) TRY to unmount the disk,
which would fail due to "open files". At no point did I even look at the
files on the disk yet I got this error. My solution, as I said, was to
simply specify that it was acceptable to unmount a PGP virtual disk even
with open files.

OK, I'm going to give that a try the next few days. But don't you think the
option you mentioned could possibly cause data corruption?

Post by Neil - Salem, MA USA
I suspect, though I can't prove it, that some behavior in Windows was at
the root of my problem.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. Windows, so it seems, does all kinds of
actions a user didn't ask to do and often a lot of mysterious invisible
processes are going on...

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

David W. Hodgins

2008-12-04 19:44:45 UTC

Post by Neil - Salem, MA USA
I suspect, though I can't prove it, that some behavior in Windows was at the
root of my problem.

Just a wild guess, on my part. Linea, did you install a m$ update that turned
on the indexing of all files, for the desktop search?

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

Linea Recta

2008-12-04 21:03:58 UTC

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:03:33 -0500, Neil - Salem, MA USA

Post by Neil - Salem, MA USA
I suspect, though I can't prove it, that some behavior in Windows was at the
root of my problem.

Just a wild guess, on my part. Linea, did you install a m$ update that turned
on the indexing of all files, for the desktop search?

I have not done any m$ updates on my W2000SP4 PC recently.

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

David W. Hodgins

2008-12-04 21:26:49 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
I have not done any m$ updates on my W2000SP4 PC recently.

I'd try filemon from http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046.aspx
to see what is accessing the volume.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

Dave English

2008-12-05 11:23:14 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
I have not done any m$ updates on my W2000SP4 PC recently.

I'd try filemon from
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046.aspx
to see what is accessing the volume.

Or sysintenals process explorer to see what has a handle open on the
drive.

Regards

--
Dave English Internet Platform Development
Senior Software & Systems Engineer Thus
a Cable&Wireless business

Linea Recta

2008-12-06 17:52:55 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
I have not done any m$ updates on my W2000SP4 PC recently.

I'd try filemon from
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046.aspx
to see what is accessing the volume.

Or sysintenals process explorer to see what has a handle open on the
drive.

I have process explorer on PC and played around a bit with it. But I really
wouldn't know how to use it aimed at solving my problem...

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Dave English

2008-12-08 06:23:40 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
I have not done any m$ updates on my W2000SP4 PC recently.

I'd try filemon from
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046.aspx
to see what is accessing the volume.

Or sysintenals process explorer to see what has a handle open on the
drive.

I have process explorer on PC and played around a bit with it. But I really
wouldn't know how to use it aimed at solving my problem...

For future reference: select the Find menu & choose "Find Handle or
DLL...", enter the drive letter, e.g. G: .

Regards

--
Dave English Internet Platform Development
Senior Software & Systems Engineer Thus
a Cable&Wireless business

Linea Recta

2008-12-08 20:36:37 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
I have not done any m$ updates on my W2000SP4 PC recently.

I'd try filemon from
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046.aspx
to see what is accessing the volume.

Or sysintenals process explorer to see what has a handle open on the
drive.

I have process explorer on PC and played around a bit with it. But I really
wouldn't know how to use it aimed at solving my problem...

For future reference: select the Find menu & choose "Find Handle or
DLL...", enter the drive letter, e.g. G: .

Thanks for your input.

I just did as you described, typed M: and I got a loooooooong list of items,
all of them called (last column) "NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:3E7"

The process names (first column):
AluschedulerSvc
CTHELPER.EXE
explorer.exe
GHOSTS~2.EXE
LSASS.EXE (8 times)
LVCOMSX.EXE
mcagent.exe
mcmscsvc.exe (twice)
McNASvc.exe (twice)
McProxy.exe
McSACore.exe
McShield.exe (twice)
mcsysmon.exe
MpfSrv.exe
MSIMN.EXE
NOPDB.EXE
PDVDServ.exe
rapimgr.exe
SERVICES.EXE (4 times)
spoolsv.exe (3 times)
svchost.exe (20 times)
wcescomm.exe
WINLOGON.EXE (twice)
WinMgmt.exe (twice)

So what do I do now? :-)

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Linea Recta

2008-12-08 20:42:49 UTC

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:03:58 -0500, Linea Recta

Post by Linea Recta
I have not done any m$ updates on my W2000SP4 PC recently.

I'd try filemon from
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046.aspx
to see what is accessing the volume.

Or sysintenals process explorer to see what has a handle open on the
drive.

I have process explorer on PC and played around a bit with it. But I

really

Post by Linea Recta
wouldn't know how to use it aimed at solving my problem...

For future reference: select the Find menu & choose "Find Handle or
DLL...", enter the drive letter, e.g. G: .

Thanks for your input.
I just did as you described, typed M: and I got a loooooooong list of items,

Addendum:

M: is the USB stick with the PGP disk file on it.
Q: is the mounted PGP disk.
When I do the same "find" on Q: I get no results.

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Linea Recta

2008-12-05 21:45:05 UTC

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:03:33 -0500, Neil - Salem, MA USA

Post by Neil - Salem, MA USA
I suspect, though I can't prove it, that some behavior in Windows was at the
root of my problem.

Just a wild guess, on my part. Linea, did you install a m$ update that turned
on the indexing of all files, for the desktop search?

Well, at least I didn't do it myself!
Today it seems mcafee had turned on automatic updates for Windows, without
me knowing it. Nowadays it's very hard to know whats going on with all this
software taking decisions on their own!

Furtermore, I first tested Neil Salems sugestion "allow unmounting of
virtual disks even with open files", but to no avail. Could not unmount
still. At this point I tried to reboot, but now I got an error "PGP hidden
window not reacting". So I had to force it to shut down.

As I mentioned I (and a lot of other xs4all users) had a lot of problems
with mcafee antivirus plus. (Which is another long and frustrating thread
below).
Anyway, I had to remove mcafee completely using a special removal tool. With
mcafee removed, I did some testing with PGP disk again, and... mounting and
unmounting now worked fine! So the PGP disk unmounting problem is definitely
(one of many) problems caused by mcafee.

For those interested in the mcafee problem:
http://community.mcafee.com/showthread.php?t=225985

After working all evening I now have a clean install of mcafee, hopefully
(with updating problem solved, but only future will tell), but... also have
the problem with PGP disk unmounting is back again! :-((

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Neil - Salem, MA USA

2008-12-05 23:33:53 UTC

Post by Linea Recta
After working all evening I now have a clean install of mcafee, hopefully
(with updating problem solved, but only future will tell), but... also have
the problem with PGP disk unmounting is back again! :-((

Well ...I'm glad you are closer to the real source of your problem. I'm
sorry that after reinstalling McAfee you have the problem again.

In the past, I have had several occasions when Norton Internet Security has
caused me all kinds of strange problems such as interfering with other
software which were solved only after I uninstalled and reinstalled Norton.

These anti-virus programs operate at such a low level that they can cause
real problems when they themselves have coding errors.

Let us know of your progress on your issues.

Neil - Salem, MA USA

Neil W Rickert

2008-12-05 02:53:22 UTC

"Linea Recta" <***@abc.invalid> writes:

I'm voting (with others who have posted) that this is a Windows
problem, not a PGP problem. And if it is a Windows problem, the
TrueCrypt will behave similarly.

Here's an incident I recall from a few years back (in comp.security.ssh if
I recall). Somebody was carrying around putty keys on a USB drive.
But after adding a key to pageant, Windows would not allow him to
unmount the USB drive (said it was in use).

My suggestion, at the time, was that he should then go through the
steps to add another key, this one from the hard drive. And then
cancel before adding anything. There does not actually have to be a
key on the hard drive. My theory was that something had done a "CD"
to the USB drive. And by going through the steps to add something
from the hard drive, that would change its current working directory
off the USB.

Apparently this worked.

Then Simon Tatham (author of putty) commented that his software was
not changing its working directory. However, since my suggestion
worked, I think the theory is probably correct. My guess is that
when browsing for a key, something in a Windows DLL is changing the
current directory, even though it isn't directly done in putty code.

In your case, possibly something you are doing is causing a "CD"
into the mounted volume in a Windows DLL. And that keeps the
mounted volume busy so that you cannot unmount it.

Linea Recta

2008-12-05 19:13:20 UTC

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I'm voting (with others who have posted) that this is a Windows
problem, not a PGP problem. And if it is a Windows problem, the
TrueCrypt will behave similarly.
Here's an incident I recall from a few years back (in comp.security.ssh if
I recall). Somebody was carrying around putty keys on a USB drive.
But after adding a key to pageant, Windows would not allow him to
unmount the USB drive (said it was in use).
My suggestion, at the time, was that he should then go through the
steps to add another key, this one from the hard drive. And then
cancel before adding anything. There does not actually have to be a
key on the hard drive. My theory was that something had done a "CD"
to the USB drive. And by going through the steps to add something
from the hard drive, that would change its current working directory
off the USB.
Apparently this worked.
Then Simon Tatham (author of putty) commented that his software was
not changing its working directory. However, since my suggestion
worked, I think the theory is probably correct. My guess is that
when browsing for a key, something in a Windows DLL is changing the
current directory, even though it isn't directly done in putty code.
In your case, possibly something you are doing is causing a "CD"
into the mounted volume in a Windows DLL. And that keeps the
mounted volume busy so that you cannot unmount it.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAkk4mCYACgkQvmGe70vHPUM+rwCgpm+Y19hLzyhokl3fRvCjo/sD
1iYAn0Z3Hd65xvzFEdVYfk2cbe4PGoGE
=rVEe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I do use PGP disks from different locations, amongst one on a USB stick.
But... this has worked fine for a long time...

--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Linea Recta

2008-12-06 17:52:22 UTC